179: Beyond Disclosure: UFOs, Non-Human Beings & Bigfoot | Stephen & Leslie Shaw

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In this episode of The Wandering Road, we sit down with Stephen and Leslie Shaw for a fascinating conversation that ventures deep into the world of UFOs, non-human intelligence, cryptids, and the unexplained.

We explore UFO and UAP disclosure, advancing technology and what it could mean for our understanding of the phenomenon, alleged encounters with Mantid and Reptilian beings, theories surrounding their physical similarities, and even the question of where Bigfoot could fit genetically.

Stephen and Leslie share their research, theories, and perspectives as we explore some of the biggest questions surrounding high strangeness and the possibility that our reality may be far more complicated than we realize.

Whether you're a longtime believer, a skeptic, or simply fascinated by the unexplained, this conversation will give you plenty to think about.

Keep an open mind, draw your own conclusions, and enjoy the show.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The views and experiences shared in this episode are those of our guests, and do not necessarily reflect those of the wandering road. We encourage you to keep an open mind, draw your own conclusions, and most importantly, enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome to the Wandering Road, a paranormal podcast. Every mile of this road holds a story. Some are whispered, some screamed, and some never meant to be told at all. From haunted backroads to whispered legends, no case is too dark and no question too dangerous. Welcome, traveler. The road is waiting.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

And today we are joined by two very special guests. Dean and I have done multiple, multiple, probably at least 10 episodes on aliens UFOs. Correct me if I'm wrong, Stephen and Leslie. One or both of you had had experiences, either yourself or within your family.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

So Steven's the uh primary experiencer in our relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, I'm the I'm the reason why the book was written in the yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Yeah. I I've I'm a UFO witness and I'll tell you about that too. But what was your question? But uh Steven is uh started with him at three, H three, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Oh wow, guys, H3. Please let's start there. I'm so excited for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Welcome to the show, both of you. Thank you so much for being on the show. We appreciate it. Starting from the beginning, where did this all start for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Ugh, well, I was born in 1960 and grew up in Woodland Hills, California, which is a suburb of Los Angeles. And uh so anyway, my parents were both British, you know, grew up in wartime England. And I was born here in in the United States. So, anyways, the earliest memories I have, uh as far as being visitations, were at the age of three when I would be fairly frequently, not maybe like three or four times I would say I was visited by a uh like a two-footed being, that little playful being that would jump on my stomach and my my chest in the middle of the night, wake me up and I was looking and says, Well, you know, this is it felt like a cat almost like the weight of a cat, but it was two-footed. And it was invisible. Yes. It was nothing menacing about it. So I didn't think much of it until later on. I mean, a lot of things see our our show is called Abductons 101 UFOs and the paranormal connection. Because in our in our research there really is a connection between the paranormal and um what people commonly call the UFO phenomena. Uh has to do with the well anyways. We'll get to that later.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Yeah, one thing with with uh people they abduct regularly, they take families generally.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

And we think they keep trap tabs on them in the astral realm. So it's right there. That's that's a paranormal thing that's not usually associated with the alien uh phenomenon, but that we have noticed uh is definitely part of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Right. So anyway, my family has four generations of experience with what we call the what we used to call the spiritual spiritual entity called Oglegli that had been with the Shaw on the Roe uh bloodline, since the my great grandparents, great great grandparents as far as I can tell so far. And this entity would show up always looking the same, uh as far as height and size, about six and a half feet tall, skinny, and frequently as a black person or a black shape. Um for me it was blue-white. For my brother, he actually saw it as a tall gray, okay, when he was sixteen. So, anyways, uh it wasn't until my brother saw the tall gray that was this old Glegley character that it actually saved people's lives. And always showing up the same way, but in the same appearance, the same size, the same shape. And um anyway, so that's when we knew what we were deal dealing with. Our family handlers we call them, Old Glegley is a tall gray. Okay. Has some interest in our family bloodline, in in the g genetics of my bloodline for whatever reason, you know. I've got a lot of um English, Scottish, Irish, and some German in me. I'm pretty much all from that part of the world, my my blood. What really got us into deciding to write this book is that around the age of thirty, when I was an acupuncturist and I first became a state licensed acupuncturist, Chinese medical doctor, I started needing to get some answers for myself. The this thing about O'Glegley just wasn't adding up for me. It just wasn't making sense. Um, so I started doing my serious research into things like, you know, not it wasn't called the ancient astronaut theory yet at that time in 1991. It was, you know, books were out there like uh Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock and Von Daniken's work was out of the year. And The Gods of Eden by by uh Bramley, William Bramley, and started to look into the history and the occurrence of these things.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

And then when uh we got together, I'm a journalist, I'm more like the writer in the family. I did the lion's share of the writing, but because of his medical background, uh he was invaluable as a researcher more because uh, you know, I I had to read these medical papers on the human brain, and uh I could not make heads or tails out of it, so I needed him for and also geology. Uh, you know, he has a geology background.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Well, what really what really sealed the deal for me was when I was 18, when uh my family uh we had there were five members of the family, my brother, sister, my mom, and myself, and uh my dad. And my dad and I were cabinet makers. My dad was the master, and we were working at the uh the Faulberg house where I grew up. We had a shop there, okay, and my sister was going to school, so she was with us, but my mom and my brother were in the house that we were building, because we were builders too. We were building a house up in Sonora, California, which is 350 miles away, and we had a series of five incidents that happened uh to the whole family, 350 miles apart at the same time. Okay. And one of the things that was that was kind of like the culminating the pinnacle or the the biggest thing that happened was when I was approached by this blue white entity in 5 30 in the morning. Now, this was a culmination of the three nights before that, all kinds of weird stuff was happening. My bed was was was pushed three different times, twice.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

By an invisible thing again.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

I was tapped I was tapped on on my right deltoid three times, and uh I world over said, What? I thought somebody was playing a joke on me, and there was a shimmery object in front of me, and I looked at it, I looked at it, and then I blacked out.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Okay. That's the signature of the abduction phenomenon. You'll see something, you know, a family member will see something bizarre like a gray alien in their room, and the next thing they know, they black out in the other.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

The night before that was the auditory uh thing that happened. Um my dad heard these silver bells being rung in the in the in the living room at nine o'clock at night. I was in my room and my my dad came and said, Stephen, I'm hearing silver bells. I said, Okay, dad, okay, what's this all about, right? So I went into the living room and there sure enough, there's this ding, ding inside the wall, inside the two by four wall. You know, being builders, we know that bells don't resonate inside the two by four wall. And so then we got my sister, and my sister came to the room and says, You know, where's that bell coming from? So we all heard it, it went on for 10 minutes, we banged on the wall, looked up the chimney, and couldn't make heads or tails of it, and then it just stopped. So then we ended up going to sleep eventually, and we would always call my par my mom and my brother in the morning because they're a separated family, right? So, so, anyways, we called my mom, and my mom, by the way, was a very accomplished automatic writer. In fact, uh, a little aside here, all the women in in the bloodline that I'm talking about have been, apart from one, uh, very accomplished automatic writers.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

And all of them are psychic. And I can testify to that.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

My mom, my mom was especially that way. Um, I I saw it happen, I saw her approved to me on several occasions. Um, so anyway, so my mom said, you know, the funny thing happened, Jeffrey. Uh, about nine o'clock last night, I heard this bell. And I was sitting by the phone, I thought the phone was ringing. So she picked up the phone and she said there was a man's voice on the other end, and this baritone voice said something along the lines of I am the invisible um Beachy or Old Glegley. Maybe Old Glegley. Because she was half awake. So I thought this was really weird. Really, at the same time that we were hearing him hearing the bell. So I got my brother on the phone. I was thinking this just has to be a joke or something. I said, Philip, did the did the phone ring? He said, No, I was I was in the room and I saw mom pick up the phone and she was trying to have a conversation. It was nine o'clock. So he didn't hear it, but my mom did hear. But this was happening to the family in two locations, 350 miles apart at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

And then the next night the thing taps him and scares the daylights out of him that way.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

And then the next night the next night I decide I do not want to sleep in the bedroom. I don't know what's gonna happen because things are escalating. You know, every night things are getting worse, right? So I decided I'm gonna sleep in my work clothes, I'm gonna sleep in the living room on the sofa. That's what I did. So I woke up about 5 30 in the morning. This is January, and I looked at my piano, thinking like I was gonna play some ELP that day or some whatever, some block or something. And I I was awake, I didn't want to get up at 5.30 in the morning. I heard the little fountain in the other room, and behind me was the front door. So I'm laying face up, I'm facing that way. There's like this blue door just opens up behind me, and this tall, six and a half foot tall being, blue-white, just comes through this door, glides, walks, like in about one and a half to two seconds to 20 feet, bringing all this wall of blue-white light with it. And the wall of light stopped right at my head. It didn't penetrate through the room, it just stopped, just like it was cut off. And my whole right side of my body was just bisected and it just went completely numb. Okay, my left side I could feel it move, but the right side was turned off my nervous system. The entity bent down and said clearly into my right ear, hi, Steve, in a whisper. Clearly said my name. Wasn't in my head, it was in my ear. And I'm thinking I'm gonna see O'Glegley that I heard about since being a kid. And you know, I want to say I wanted to ask O'Glegley some questions, you know, what is it like on the other side and that kind of stuff, right? I'm still thinking that we're not dealing with aliens as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah, like it's a spirit, maybe, yeah since I was 18, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

But the other half of me, the logical side, is saying, dude, you can't move. Okay, you know, you can't move. No matter what you try and do, you can't move. You move your left side, but you're paralyzed this way, right? And I guess I got nervous and I was I could see it had big had a big kind of a biggish head and biggest eyes, but it was blue, but it's skinny and tall. And then it unbent, went back the way it came, and like the door shut, and I'm out. So I told my my dad and my sister about that at breakfast time, and my dad and I then went to work. That's what we had to do, internal living. So 11:30 rolls around, and I say, Dad, I'll get us some food. Okay, so I reached into my pants pocket, the right-hand side pocket, which I had my coins in, and I put the coins on the table, and I kid you not, all the coins were magnetic. Okay, these are standard American coins. If you've ever tried to magnetize American coins, you can't. Not that I've ever been able to, at least. And I I could pick them up easily from but by the edge, by the face, didn't matter. My dad could do the same thing too. So we I I was physically affected. The things that were on me physically changed because of this interaction, okay? And it was later on as we started doing our research, and we finally the light went off. Oh, we're not dealing with a spirit entity, we're dealing with an extra or what we call our cousins, because we don't actually call them extraterrestrials because they're they're here anyway. They've been here for a long time, and they breed with us too, so they have to be extremely close to us. Um, so that's the reason. You know, we started doing our research and we just had to like say there is a connection here. You know, the theory, the theory is a connection here between it's not that we're coming from our tourists and the Pleiades, and they have an agenda, and their agenda is really to it's either to replace us or to reintegrate with us. That's what we found, because they are consistent and they've been consistent with my bloodline showing up for about 120 years. So this isn't just something that's just happening just in the last few years or a couple of decades, at least with my family bloodline. It has been this same entity too, has been with us for at least 120 years.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah. And uh, you know, uh the about 10% of abductees who have successfully regressed and remember their abductions, um, they're women who report being raped by their alien handlers and impregnated this way. And uh then four months later they they take them again and they steal the fetuses and uh disappearing. And they they do this like several several times in a woman's life, sometimes four or five, as much as uh Karen Wilkinson thought, at least four, because she met four of her uh hybrid offspring.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

She she wrote our uh our our introduction.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Yeah, the foreword for our book, you know. Um uh and we've had her on the on the podcast. She's she's an author too.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

She wrote Stolen Seed Evil Harvest. Yeah, it's a very, it's a very it's a chilling book. It's a chilling book.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

If the aliens were impregnating us with in vitro fertilization, then it could be genetically engineered and complete, and they don't need to be human, right? But they're not. They're having sex with us and making us pregnant via sex. So we surmise they have to be human. And then rare genetic uh DNA left behind by aliens, sure enough, is testing as human. And uh, so our theory is that the are we're not dealing with aliens coming here from distant star systems. We think it's a breakaway branch of the human race that retreated underground 13,000 years ago to escape the younger dry ass comet.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Impact, yes, at that time.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

So they're down there, they're mutating away from us. We think they need regular infusions of DNA from surface dwellers. And uh, we think they took cattle with them when they went below, so they need regular infusions of cattle DNA, which is what explains the cattle mutilations, we think. And uh that's why all the aliens are fully upright walking bipedal hominids, and uh, it's why all the aliens uh a lot of them look exactly like humans, you know, except sometimes the eyes are a little too large or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Which would happen, which would happen if you're subsurface for a little bit of tens of thousands of years.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

And the mutations we're seeing in the aliens, they're more signs of troglodytes than it is like space behavior. Like for instance, they're glowing more, they're bioluminescing more. That's something that would happen in a low light environment, right? Their eyes are getting bigger and blacker, their hair is becoming finer and uh clear, it all the melanin is gone in the hair.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Um, and uh all the things you'd expect to see uh within a uh several within a hundred generations or so, or 50 to 100 generations. You know, you you just the nature just selects for that.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

But they can have sex with us and get us pregnant because they are they are human, you know. In uh that's really fascinating. In our opinion, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah. I I I do have a quick question because it the whole concept of them coming and having like sexual activity with humans, um, there were a couple stories. This is Dean, if you recall, this was like three years ago when we first started the podcast. I can't remember, I think if the guy was like somewhere in South America, um, he claimed that there was a humanoid, like female looking who was like like pale skin, blonde hair, came and like had sex with him. And he had like a strand of her hair left over, and they like took it.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

And they were like that's the hair of the alien, uh, based on a book called The Hair. It was in uh he was near uh Sydney, Australia, the man that it happened to.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

I do remember that being an Australian story as well, but I I think there also is a similar situation um in South America.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

But while he's looking at the South America was the Verhinga uh incident, I believe. Um Verhinga where they had direct contact with aliens, yeah. And their blood.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

I'm sorry, it was Antonio Vilas Boas in October of 1957.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

Oh, so is another hair of the alien story? I didn't know about that.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

1957, so it's like way, way before.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

It's even before this guy, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Yeah, Antonio Vilas Boas. I think I think he was Brazil.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Brazil. Brazil was the Verhinga uh incident, it might have been part of that. A lot of people saw stuff that during that.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

I think it was 57 though. I think it was yeah, it wasn't 57. No, it wasn't 57. There was a these from a different one, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

But but that that's yeah, Brazilian farmer.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

He was a Brazilian farmer. He claimed that he was abducted in 1957 and had uh sex with extraterrestrials. He would have been younger.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

He probably would have been about 17 or 16.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yeah, he would have been young, like yeah, around that age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Yes, we would have done him the courtesy of believing his story entirely because that's what we think is really happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah. I I think that's how we approach our conversations as well with anybody, really, because uh, you know, the whole the old uh Socratic conversation where you know you don't really know anything, um even if you think you do. So there's so much to unpack, and I'm really excited to get into a lot of this. Um, but the one comment I wanted to make first is I think you both hit the nail on the head, and I'm so glad you brought it up with the the concept of uh extraterrestrials as coming from interstellar travel versus coming from our bloodline uh and and being part of this planet and breaking off. I think if you were to ask me in a logical sense, I think that that would be infinitely more probable than another species separate from the human bloodline evolving as a bipedal organism, like what, million plus miles away or light years away or whatever, and then coming to us, it just doesn't fit.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

And I always like you know, some of them have photographs, they have nipples, they're they're lactating mammals, you know. That's right, right. They're so from here, you know, uh they develop you know that evolved on this planet, you know.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

So the thing, the thing that I always got tripped up on though, uh, and maybe you can shed some light on this from your perspective. There has to be because you said that they split off from our bloodline a long time ago in the same way that um Neanderthals or other primates had split off from modern Homo sapiens and and et cetera. So I love that I love that theory, and I think that there's a lot of evidence for that theory. The only thing I would ask is in your minds, they it seems like these extraterrestrials or these human terrestrials or whatever or different human, I don't even have you would say that, but um, they would have to have acquired some significant technology beyond our current capacity because if they're doing these things, they're magnetizing coins or they're being becoming ethereal and reanimate or whatever you want to call it, um, there has to be some kind of technological aspect. Well, however, there's also the the biological could be, right? Like there's always there's always the supernatural biological perspective. I would love to get your two cents on that.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

Well, it since they went underground 13,000 years ago, they took their technology with them.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

They were already highly, highly evolved.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

And their culture with them. So right there, they're and all of us on the surface got if we weren't killed, we were thrown back into the stone age and had to start from scratch, right? So right there, they're about 12,000, 13,000 years ahead of us. But we think um, you know, Homo sapien came into being about 150,000 years ago. Homo sapiens sapien, I mean, us. And um mainstream archaeology would have us believe that we sat around for like 130,000 years doing nothing, stone. Inventing nothing, not even the house, you know. We just wandered Europe uh in hunter gatherer groups for 130,000 years. So we don't think that's very likely. We think that we grew as a huge society, maybe even had a space program. Maybe the structures on the moon were from us. And then the younger dryads comet. It laid us low, like any celestial impact will.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

That's uh is a hundred kilometers across the comet.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Nothing worse than the celestial impact, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

It was a it was a big one. So the northern hemisphere, the whole northern hemisphere, because of the Ucello horizon, uh it's the bet the boundary in the 13,000-year-old soil, which is on four different continents, ten different countries so far, at the same time, the whole northern hemisphere, all the forests were on fire at the same time. And we know that it was a comet because of the shock quartz that has been found and the nanodiamonds. So the two factors together, the high abundance of nano diamonds in that soil, plus also the shock quartz. Uh, with a meteor impact, the quartz is shocked and basically elongated and fractured differently than in an airburst. So we know it was an airburst, and we know when it happened, and we know that they couldn't they couldn't do anything about it because all there's like twelve hundred different myths around the world that talk about with a disembodied voice saying that there's going to be a winter coming like you've never seen before. Or a horrible flood. A horrible flood. And they are also told to either go to high ground or build a boat or dig in, uh, basically. And it's just so in other words, we had to have foreknowledge of this event going to occur. If we had an astronaut program and we had astronomy, which we did, we could see this thing coming maybe a year or two in advance, and we couldn't do anything about it. So, wait, you have to like either get off planet or you dig in.

SPEAKER_05 23:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

And and that's what they did. Like Darren Q used another example of that in Turkey. The stuff coming out of the Gobek Utepes, the stuff out of South Africa that's coming out. Now that we have evolved enough to both analyze this data, it's all supporting that we were highly evolved 13,000 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

You know, these things, these things we had technology that we don't currently have.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

But uh but the younger dryads, the would have created 2,000 foot-high tsunamis rushing toward the coast at hundreds of miles an hour. And uh it struck all different mediums too. It struck three different mediums. It struck the ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, and the land, which kicks up an enormous dust into the air. And um and the ice sheet, which vaporizes water uh like gigatons of water.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

So uh we would have had torrential rains following it for like a year. Uh it was it was climactically a disaster for a thousand years afterwards. The younger dryest boundary after the Ucello horizon, after that charcoal. It's it's a thousand years worth of terrible climate. Um so we think they went underground to escape the comet, and they stayed underground because the climate was so horrific on the surf earth surface, and they were nice and safe down there, and you know, as long as they kept their technology up, they could survive.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

While we're on the topic, I do want to ask if you've done any research into I know this is like a loaded question, so I apologize, but so homo Homo sapiens um sapien evolution began uh with us about 150,000 years ago. That's pretty common knowledge. However, between then and the evolution that they separated from us all the way up to that uh 10,000 or 13,000 year marker where they went underground, how much of that time of 150,000 uh years of Homo sapien history would you say that they secluded? Did they seclude themselves from us once they reached a certain point? And how long do you assess that they stayed away from humans to separate the cultures? Because it wasn't immediate.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll handle that because I just finished I just finished reading Harari's book, Sapiens, that came out a couple years ago. It's like one of the definitive ones. It's pretty thick, but if you read through it, we know we know that the homo sapiens that with that um homo. He's talking about 13. Yeah, I'm just gonna just catch up a little bit here. Like 400,000 years ago, Homo sapiens, before the sapien sapiens, started hunting big game, and 300,000 years ago we started to control fire. From that time period, going we started in the South Africa and we started moving up towards the Middle East and then into Europe. We were more evolved in our uh neocortex and our frontal lobe than Neanderthal was. We're a little bit bigger, a little bit faster, and a little bit smarter. And Neanderthals all kind of had small groups they lived in. So we ended up basically being smarter and out basically outbreeding them, even though we do have some Neanderthal in our blood. Some people do about one or two percent, right? So, anyways, we we we evolved to Homo sapien sapien, and we don't know how many times we had cultures that came up and down, but we do know that they made a choice to stay subsurface because they knew that most of the people on the surface were gonna be dead anyway, and we would have to go back in the hunter-gatherer. So we voluntarily, the people that broke away that kept their technology, they had really no problem mostly staying subsurface and probably going to south of the equator, which was drier. They could have done that too.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Which we think it they uh there's an underground city under uh the ice sheet of Antarctica, we believe.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Uh we think Admiral Byrd really did meet with them down there, and uh they he met he met with them and described them as men. And these men said, Normally we don't have anything to do with you surface people and your barbaric wars, but you know, now that you've cracked the atom, we have to do something about it. We have to intervene.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yeah, it was necessity. They had to say, you know, you know, you're gonna kill the planet, you're gonna kill yourselves, and along that, along the way, you're gonna kill us too. And so we live here too. And it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Since then, they've been following our nukes everywhere we go. Everywhere we go. They park their their UFOs outside our nuclear facilities, outside our research facilities, outside our missile silos. They follow our carrier groups, they follow our submarines.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

They're I love it. I I I can't believe I that is such a fascinating, I would rank that among like the top fascinating theories about extraterrestrials or or the you know the beings that are uh projecting themselves as extraterrestrials because everybody tries to pitch the whole they're completely altruistic, and you know, they stop the nuclear that they said they stop the nuclear things to save us, but you just injected what makes more sense in the existence of nature is self-preservation. And so it does make sense that if they were underground, they're like, Yeah, you're gonna destroy yourselves, we can't let that happen because that's gonna affect us. Like that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

They'll kill us too. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

I love that. I've never heard that before, and that's just unbelievable. That's it's necessity and self-preservation.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Human beings, if they're anything like us, which they are, uh, we have all the seven deadly sins, okay. And uh we think we see the other thing we found too is that is that uh telepathy, we're all born telepathic, especially infants, okay. Telepathy is something that we evolve away from because we have to we have to learn how to to talk and to like learn how to read and write. But we're all naturally telepathic. We think it's this great thing that some people have. We actually all have it, and they are cousins, as we call them. Yeah, they didn't lose that ability. And we don't call them aliens, that ability. So for them, telepathy is like like riding a bike. You know, it's like a skill that you learn, and they have kept it. That's why when they communicate with people, frequently it's in simplistic, easy sentences. It isn't in like when I was at the market yesterday with Jim, I saw it's like come here or thank you, my friend. It's very simplistic because because we can receive, if we're a receiver, we can also be a transmitter.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

They show pictures in their minds.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

You have to have both. If you receive, you have to be able to transmit. So we can receive, which means the brain chemistry and the brain pathways are very, very similar.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

And they're very worried about the uh the ecology of the planet. Um, whenever we they do get their message across to people, like 23 Zimbabwe children or whatever, they whenever they approach people and get their message across, it's don't use nukes and take better care of the planet. Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

You know, take better care of the planet.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

That's consistent. And so why would they care? If you're from Arcturist, why the hell would you care if we blew up our planet or not? You know? It's like, but and maybe you would a little, maybe you'd care altruistically a little, but would you commit the kind of resources we're talking about to follow our crazy selves all over the planet to not blow ourselves up?

SPEAKER_03 30:46

The only way that would make sense is if they had unlimited resources. But right, yeah, Chris, I'll toss it to you in a second. But I think there's one more thing I want to pivot to that's a perfect time for this because I have it on my list. Talking about altruistic versus evil and bad intentions, because you mentioned earlier, Stephen, you said that they were either you you assessed that they were either here to replace us or merge with us. And those are two very conflicting approaches to views because replacing might be more altruistic integrating, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:15

They are infiltrating our society with these hybrids that they're creating. Now, what is the end goal of that infiltration? Is it eventual reintegration to merge our two peoples back together? Or has or do they want to kick us off the surface and take over?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Or or has Homo sapiens sapien run its course and they think we're just too violent? And they say, you know what, for the long-term thinkers, they say, okay, Homo sapiens sapience, you guys are it's it's it's a fact that we're killing the planet. We're we're we're we're contributing to it very strongly. Okay. And if we don't do something, do something quick, we are we're in we're in trouble.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

And how much patience are they supposed to have with us? Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

You know, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

And I've always been fascinated with our creation myths, specifically because I used to I'm I was born and raised in New York, so I've been to the Met multiple times. And you go to the Mesopotamian section and you see the figures of the Anunnaki. Now, my question is where do the Anunnaki fit in into this discussion or this um your perspective because they tell because a lot of creation myths speak of like sky beings. And now frequently, like even with the disclosures that happened recently with like very credible people in the military who are putting their this is what I say with the UAP UFO hearings. If there was not something to it, these credible lieutenants and officers in the military and the air force and the navy would not be putting their names and their rank and their lives at risk.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Oh, yeah. So it's it's so real. I mean, yeah, we just get past that, you know, people you know out there, you know. It's real, get over it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Uh I probably saw a UFO when I was a kid myself. So, I mean, it it's kind of freaky when you're like walking and something in the sky, a light in the sky, is following you. Yeah. Yeah while you're doing it, and then you you have your mom with you and your little sister in the stroller, and she notices it and she like freaks the fuck out, and she's like, Okay, we gotta go. And then as soon as we get to our house, it like it just stops and it just like disappears, type of thing. Back to the creation myths. A lot of them talk about sky beings, a lot of them talk about sky gods. The most prevalent one that we like to hear about, if you guys have ever watched Ancient Aliens, or they like talking about the Anunnaki. I personally like the Anunnaki because I think they look cool. It's an interesting theory that they came down and they spliced their DNA because if you look at our DNA, like 99% of it is like crap, and then there's that like one percent, right? Yeah, it's junk DNA. Then there's like one slight variation that makes us different, makes us who we are, yeah. Exactly. So, from your perspective, like how do you fit that in with those different cultures with the theor their creation stories?

SPEAKER_04 34:28

So we you know, we are talking about the the creatures that are having sex with us as being human, and they are, but they're human because the Anunnaki had tons of human slaves that they took underground with them.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

The Adamu race, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

We we think the Anunnaki are real, we think Sitchin is a genius, and we want to say F you to all those jerks in that they say, Oh, it's been debunked, you know. And now they're they're so being justified. They found the Abzu of the uh that he writes about at Southern Africa, the 200,000-year-old mines down there that predate man itself, you know, and oh well, yeah, yeah. The infrastructure under the Giza Plateau, the the uh the artifacts coming out of central Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Oh, yeah, we have one of those actually, one of the 9,000-year-old artifact, and it's it's very clear, it's it's been accurately dated because of the manganese oxide, which cannot be faked by any type of artist. It only grows over a period of time by nature. So we have one, and uh I'll show it to you if I can find it.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Well, well, uh I see where it is. So people ask me a lot, so aliens, are they involved at all, Leslie? And the answer is yes, but 300,000 years ago, we think they uplifted humanity from Homo erectus into Homo sapiens to make us workers, to make them us their slave workers. And uh they slowly improved on the model and then made Homo sapiens sapiens. And we think that they were kind of the power structure on the planet 13,000 years ago. And this is another reason why they had advanced technology.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

This is a geopolymer, they're not really sure what it's made out of. You know, they've done the electromicroscope type of exams on it, but uh they it's got the manganese oxide on it. You can see like a little see the little spaceship with the bottom with the uh sperm tail on it. This is something it's like a it's like a plastic, plastic rock resin that was stored at some point about nine or ten thousand about nine thousand years ago. This is not even the oldest one. The oldest ones that the funerary jars they're pulling out from like 12 feet under the ground, they have uh like uh carbon material, like they were uh for storage for like uh for uh organs. They're pulling them out about 34,000 years old. And they're using all the highest the highest end stuff as far as like the laboratories. They're spending lots of money on on proving these things are are legit.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

So it shows that this this is proving that uh Sitchin was right about the Anunnaki presence in the new world. Um he he wrote uh two books about uh their activities in Peru and Bolivia, and they're the ones that created Machu Picchu and Saxuamon and Cusco and uh what's the other big one?

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Uh and Tombo.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

No, Puma Pumapunku.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Pumapunku, yeah, the H blocks, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:28

They're the only ones that could have had the technology to build these megalithic structures.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, when you think about Pumapunko is at Pumapunco is at what 14,000 foot elevation, right? Yes. It's at 14,000 foot electronics. No, no, uh 12,412 something. So it's above the tree line by almost 2,000 feet, okay? And these I said, because I I I was a cabin maker and a builder uh for many years, and I've done a lot of concrete pours, and when I look at those H blocks, I said, this is too uniform. These things, these things were mold, these things were poured. I said, I guarantee you, these things, and they were finished cut after the fact. Okay, so so so some some German engineers came by and they finally took a good look at them and said, Oh, these things were poured. These things are poured, these things weren't cut, they were poured. I said, I could tell you they're they're too uniform in their matrix, and they're substrate and matrix. And so, yeah, so they had the ability to have uh many, they had the ability to liquefy rock. We know that because of socks to a mon. They could they could they could mold rock together so that you wouldn't have to use uh concrete, I mean cement, you wouldn't have any joints. So we know they knew how to do that. So what they did, they made these for whatever reason for spaceport or whatever, but at way above the tree line. So they weren't rolling these things on on on logs or trees. They didn't have hardwoods there, they didn't have hardwoods, and it's you know, it's just too high.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

And the uh the the uh biggest lock at uh Soxuaman is 200 tons. Well soxuaman, yeah. Yeah, you can't roll that on a palm tree.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Yeah. Has has anyone ever looked into or theorized about the utility of these things? I know you said that they could have been for a docking pad for um like a spaceport or a spaceship or something like that, or some people we agree with Sitchin's uh take on it.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Okay, and uh the reason that these all these um cities in Peru and Bolivia were built way up high on the mountaintops, we think is because they were gold processing um plants. Uh the walls at Saksuaman they're they're uh in these in these zigzags. And have you ever looked sideways at a a uh one of those a gold sleuth, you know?

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Sleuthing station, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

The sleuthing station. Um they're zigzagged like that. And what they we could have done is they had that big wow water tower at the top. We think they were um running water into this tower and then running it through the sleuthing station to pull the gold out of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

That's why they didn't have that's why they they they couldn't have uh something that had um con I mean cement joints. It had to be yeah, it had to be complete as as one one body and it would that way it wouldn't you know fall apart. So yeah, it's just exactly it's gravity fed and it was a sleuthing station, that's what it was a gold processing.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

And Machu Picchu has um an aqueduct that runs lots and tons of water to the site, even though it's it's perched right above a river. Just 300 feet down, there's a river. You don't need to make an aquifer for drinking water if you have a river 300 feet away. But they did this, I think, is because uh and and there's uh the big terraces on the top of uh uh that look like uh gold settling pools, heavy metal settling pools. And uh looks like they were running enormous quantities of water through the city. Right. And that makes sense if you're running a gold processing plant.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

I do have a question. Specifically more so from like the extraterrestrial perspective, so just wanted to get your thoughts on this. So there have been multiple reports, like just average people they see some sort of like they get visited by some sort of reptilian type being. Um some have claimed to have seen like a praying mantis type of figure, some, you know, you have your prototypical Pleiadian, the Nordic looking type of ones.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

So and I I I saw your smile there, Dean, with the the reptilian thing.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Um I had a weird thing happen in my bedroom when I was a kid, but we'll get to that in a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Oh great, yeah. So like with the folks that there are multiple claims, like hey, not only are people seeing Greys, not only are people seeing UAPs, USOs, like you know, these spacecraft that go into the water. I had a guest on that lives that's a Virgin Islander from the US Virgin Islands, and she was like, You'd be surprised how many of those we see at night. Or like these just figures just going straight into the Atlantic, you know? Specifically with like, you know, the reptilians and like the the but we'll just call them like the mantis type of species. Right. Like do you have any person thoughts or perspective on that from what you did like from your research and stuff?

SPEAKER_04 42:29

One thing I I've discovered in our research is though these are they're calling them mantids, but they have the exact same physical skeletal structure as we do. I've talked with people who've had sex with the mantids. The only thing that's kind of manted about them is like their mandibles, their their mouth parts, they're is strange, you know. And um and their proportions and their their arms uh look a little bit more like um sunken in, like insect arms would be, you know. But uh and the reptilians, they really uh people are uh, you know, you see in the art, you know, and movies and stuff, they make them look like practically velociraptors or something. But all they are is larger, stalkier grays that have scaly skin and a small little tail coming off them from the sketches and the people we've been researching. So we're still talking about the same skeletal structure as us, those bipedal hominids. We can't be a hundred percent sure of this, but we think the grays maybe went underground earlier.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Yeah, maybe at the 50,000 year mark.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

For the Lornar impact, perhaps. The Lornar was 50,000 years ago in India, another big, another big asteroid impact, you know. So they may have gone underground then, and that's why they've mutated so much. But we think these beings under the ground, they Have no qualms about using genetic engineering. And um we think they're creating Bigfoot as uh when they need strong labor or they need sentries to guard things or uh they need recon for surface reconnaissance. And uh that's why Bigfoot is half human. Yeah. So we think, and that's why there's no surface populations supporting these sightings, you know. Um they just appear with uh where UFOs happen to also appear a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Um technology, and they you know they the uh the Sasquatch genome uh project goes this completed. You know, the 111 samples they tested, catch them's work, and literally Bigfoot uh Sasquatch has got a uh has got a Latin name now, Homo sapien cognatus. That's the actual accepted name now in science for Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

It's uh sapiens plural, so cognatis.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yes. Well's got a classification.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Yeah, they they uh the lady who did the uh the uh Melbo Ketchum, Dr. Melbocetchum, she submitted her 111 separate DNA Bigfoot profiles to the uh International Zoological Society, and they accepted them. This is the International Zoological Society believes in Bigfoot, and Sasquatch is real.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

I mean, that reminds me the and this is and again, this is another uh theory or thing that I've heard never heard before that makes perfect sense and it's actually really fascinating that they could be uh genetically manufactured to provide a service to the advanced beings underground. To add on top of that, you know, you could also add, you could probably sprinkle on uh the elusiveness is probably from the protection of those beings that are looking to use them. But I am reminded of the uh the World War II uh pre-Soviet Union effort to uh merge what was it, ape DNA with human DNA. Have you ever heard that story that was an actual project?

SPEAKER_04 46:06

The the humanzy they were trying to make that humanity.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Isn't that wild? I mean, like if you were ever ever able to like layer something as a theory, like we said earlier, like humans have the same propensity for like good and evil that these creatures probably hold. Um they would probably uh resolve to the same idea too. Like, well, we can genetically modify, so let's just do that and create something to service us in whatever capacity we need. And um, and then there could be your answer for why Bigfoot is not only present or existing, but and it's outside the evolution of humanity, but also why it's so elusive. So thank you. And why it's all over the world. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

It's every it's on every continent except Antarctica, Antarctica that I know of.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

These are great. But it's it's interesting that you know the uh you know the average human has 23,000 genes, okay? Some between 20 and 25. So let's say 23,000 genes. Now, in in nature, as of two years ago, you know how many g different genes that we have identified in nature? We've identified 11 million, okay. 11 million different genes. And human the human body is made up of 23,000 genes. And the idea that creatures that beings that evolved on a different planet, another completely different planet, that had the biosphere of that planet, the bacteria, the virus, the fungi, the lichen, would be different, okay. And for them to have to come here, you know, like I went to Africa back in the 90s, I went on Safari, okay? And the shots you have to get to just to go to Africa, or if you're going to go across the border into Mexico or South America, all the different bacteria and virus and funguses that can kill you, if you think it's bad enough growing up on a planet, on this planet, having enough problems, if you're coming from another planet, you'd have to have like a Star Trek filter. You know, your your offspring, your offspring that actually were born here, if you had offspring that were born here, then they would be inoculated from going to the birth canal to start with. So literally, pioneers would have one heck of a time coming from one planet to another planet just because it would be they'd be under attack from minute one.

SPEAKER_04 48:18

It would have to be a technological problem. They'd have to overcome somehow. Yeah. Star Trek is the bio, they call it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Just my one of my favorite little um injections to that idea of how that was done is the idea that one of the reasons why extraterrestrials are made to look like humans is because they're actually synthetic. They're either like partially biological and technological or purely technological, i.e. like robots or something, made that way to kind of show that there's a difference between humanity's side and their side, but also uh to prevent any like like you said, any destruction or harm of the actual beings themselves trying to travel to the planet. So um, yeah, that's just almost like an avatar, but a few years. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah, they're like again, like you say, uh the amount of resources you'd have to need, and also I always look at like the Sherlock Holmes like the means, opportunity, and motive. Okay, you can see that they had the means to do it, but what would be their motive? You know, would their motive just to like to like learn about us? Well, they must have been really interested in the Shaw bloodline for 120 years. You know, uh, you know, what are they what are they what are they so interested in cabinet makers and acupuncturists and you know military?

SPEAKER_03 49:31

That's a perfect that's a perfect pivot point because also on my list I wanted to go back to the bloodline statement you made earlier. Have you ever been uh have you ever done the 23andMe thing or anything similar? Can you talk a little bit about that? Did you find anything interesting that stood out or did you ever trace your lineage in any way?

SPEAKER_01 49:50

It's kind of funny in in my the most recent uh part of my bloodline is is total northern Britain, and then after that it's a whole big section of Scottish, and then after that, a whole big section of Irish, and then a little bit of Icelandic, then it goes down to Welsh, going back to like the 15, 1560s or so.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

So British mostly.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

So basically, from from that part of the world. And the funny thing is, is that like in in Louis Salzando's book, uh Iminent, you know, the guy, the ATIP guy, the guy head of ATIP, um, he started practicing remote viewing. He was being taught remote viewing as part of the government project. They put a lot of money into remote viewing, apparently, for it. And when he started doing that, they found out that the people that were best at remote viewing were people that had either Scottish blood or Cherokee blood. Apparently, for whatever the psychic component is strongest in those bloodlines. And my my father was half Scottish, so it makes me quarter Scottish. So there's a lot, there's a lot of that there's that that that thing. And also when when Elizana was being taught how to do remote viewing, these orbs started showing up at his house. Yeah, they started hovering outside of the house and bugging he and his wife at nighttime. It was just like there's something again, that's what I'm talking about. The we're talking about there is something to do with the frequency or the paranormal is intermixed with what we call the alien experience because people that tend to be more psychic or more prone to certain conditions seem to have more interaction or they seem to be more interested. Let me put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

It seems like uh psychic people is one of the components they're looking for when they're looking for a bloodline, a particular bloodline. They also um our data shows that they like people with green eyes. Four out of ten abductees have green eyes, but nothing like that many in our population, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Relative to our population. Four out of ten is four out of ten is a Rh negative.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

And Rh negative is the same.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

They prefer it.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

So um four out of ten um abductees are Rh negative, but only one out of nine people is Rh negative in the population. So, and it seems to be mostly Caucasian, with with strange exempt exceptions, like um they seem to like a certain Native American tribe, the Athabascans, for instance, uh are targets frequently, and the um the Cherokee are also very highly uh psychic people, and I seem to be, you know, abductees as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

And they have a completely different relationship with Sasquatch, they see them as just being part of nature, you know. So they they have I met several uh American Indians that have met Bigfoot, and it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

So uh the one you know, if you open it up to the the idea of Sasquatch being genetically engineered by our underground cousins, there's no reason to not also open up the idea about dogman or mothman. Why not create those if you want that particular skill? The little grays they do act kind of robotic-like. We're not entirely sure if they're not a uh genetically engineered, organic kind of robot, so to speak, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Chris, what was that story we heard a while ago? Um we talked to somebody, I think it was Dogman and Bigfoot, and they were like lore in uh Native American culture where they had wars. Or wasn't there something where they went to war with each other where Bigfoot was kind of um fighting off another do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Yeah, I remember. I remember.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Was it Dogman versus Bigfoot?

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Yeah, it was Dogman and Bigfoot. There was like Dogman. I think there was like there was this tribe of natives, and Dogman was like terrorizing them. And there was a tribe of Bigfoot nearby, so what they did, the story goes is that well that's the guest that was on that shared it. I think it was I think it was Polar Bear, if you remember. From Highway of the Hidden.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Yeah, I remember down.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

So he he's like, the story that he heard was that this Native American tribe they were being harassed by Dogman and are like there we've gotta do something. Well, there's some Bigfoot nearby, but they're not we can't go and talk to them and tell them to come and kick the shit out of Dogman. So what they did was they went in to where the Bigfoot was staying, like stole like a carcass or something, or like a head of a Bigfoot, like a dead Bigfoot, and just like they were being chased by the Bigfoot and tossed it into like the dog where the dog men were staying, and then like the Bigfoot like beat the ever living shit out of them. And then there's other stories of this guy who was like out who lived out in the boonies that was being harassed by these the aggressive tribe, uh aggressive tribe of Bigfoot. I I forget what they're called. Um, I think it starts within like the Gugways or something like that. They're like very aggressive to humans in general. And they were harassing this guy, and he got a few dogs, and like they killed one of the dogs, and then another dog ran off. I guess this other dog came into contact with the dog man, and uh this group of dogmen along with this guy's dog like came and like basically like scared the Bigfoot off for off of his property and from harassing them. And from them point that point on, he was never bothered anymore. So yeah, interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_03 55:27

Yeah, sorry to deviate from the aliens thing. I just I wanted to bring it up because we don't have a lot of opportunity to talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 55:32

We love talking about uh Bigfoot too because it's part of our theory.

unknown 55:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

And you know, I'd like to say just one then I'll let you talk. I'm sorry, sorry, I keep stepping on him, I'm terrible. But I wanted to say that our theory doesn't require any theoretical physics to be true. Well, not much portal. It doesn't well, they're able to open and move through portals, but I think that's a local phenomenon. Uh, but there we don't need interstellar travel, we don't need wormholes, we don't need interdimensional travel, we don't need time travel. All of our theories are fine with just normal physics as it currently is, you know.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

I think that makes the most sense, right? Because what is it? Is it Arkham's razor? It's like the simplest explanation. Yeah, it's like I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't have to be that complex.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

You know, even the term uh interstellar space, you know, interstellar space is only a hundred astronomical units uh from us. An astronomical unit is 93 million miles, so 9.3 billion miles away starts interstellar space, which is all part of our solar system. Our solar system goes all the way to the extent of the orc cloud, which is over a hundred thousand astronomical units away. So when people talk about all it's coming from interstellar space, it's really coming from our solar system, you know.

SPEAKER_04 56:48

He's talking about the Anunnaki the Anunnaki's planet, if it's real, this Nibiru that's supposed to go through our solar system. If you go, it's still part of our solar system. And in fact, it's orbiting a brown dwarf in the direction of Orion, supposedly, according to the Sumerian tablets, right? And then in the in the 80s, there was a um infrared telescope launched by a conglomerate of countries that were together, like the US and Sweden and Norway. You know, we pitched in financially together to put this infrared telescope up into space. And this in the 80s, and this thing detected a brown dwarf in the direction of Orion, just where the Sumerian tablets said it was. I I had a a devil of a time you know uh finally finding uh corroboration of it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

That's so fascinating. Yeah, I I love um when we kind of get to hear about the past um discoveries that have been seemingly surreptitiously covered up because I think it's a good reminder and a good refresher uh that that there are things that we're not aware of anymore that we used to be aware of, and that kind of goes to the technology that either extraterrestrials or other beings underground might have left us or you know Puma Punku, the whatever whatever you want to talk about. I think there's missing knowledge that is starting to maybe trickle back. And I don't I don't really want to pivot too much randomly, but I I do want to get your perspectives on uh the recent era of disclosure. And the reason why I pivot to that during this part of the conversation is because it almost seems to me, my gut feeling is that we're getting to a point technologically where many, many people have access to many, many different technologies. And what I mean by many people, I mean like companies have their own satellite systems, whatever their star system or their Starlink or whatever you want to talk about. There are there's LIDAR now. You know, you could task, you could technically hire a commercial satellite company to fly over a certain area. As long as you have enough money, they'll do it.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Um it's called SARS, the satellite one now, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:12

SARS, yeah. So like if you if you have an abundance of technology that is accessible to a large amount of people depending on what their resources are, and then you have a diffusion of that information, it's gonna be harder and harder to cover up and hide things. Yeah, so to me, that's why disclosure seems to be making more of a break these days than in the past. Like I remember the 90s where you know everybody was fascinated with um oh my god, what was that show, Chris? The uh oh my god. X Files Files. Yeah, X-Files, thank you. Yeah, yeah. I still remember growing up watching X-Files with my parents. Like really fascinating. And and any anytime you brought up UFOs back then, if you remember, it was always like, oh my gosh, that's so fascinating. So so crazy. And now it's just like, oh yeah, aliens, who cares? I still gotta pay my bills. Like, whatever. That's right. Um, and there's like a there's kind of been a um uh breaking down of that that barrier. So it what's your take on the age of disclosure?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Quite frankly, I think it's not gonna happen voluntarily. I think that, you know, it's gonna it's gonna be almost like a grass through. It's like we just got done doing contact in the desert. We were a third time there to start being vendors. You meet a lot of interesting people, you know, you meet some of the bigwigs. In fact, uh, we were just in we were just in two more uh documentaries that just came out uh last month. Uh one's called Disclosure or Distraction, and the other one's called Uh They Knew Too Much about you know the missing scientists, missing or dead scientists and researchers. But yeah, uh, you know, it's true that but everybody's got a smartphone these days and everybody's got a camera, right? So even though I think it's kind of just for show this disclosure stuff, and a lot of the people that are in the know saying that they're not really giving us anything that we didn't already know. Okay, so it's gonna become very reluctantly. I think it will happen. But even if it does happen, people are going to question whether it was AI generated or whether it was fake, you know, or you know, they're gonna just question it because you know, there's so many fakes that are on the taking, like they're uh, you know, meeting an alien or they're but they're getting so good at it, you know, meeting Bigfoot or like getting pictures of big whatever it may be. People don't say, oh, well, that's fake. That's you know, that's that's not real. So I think we're being slowly um desensitized to the whole thing. Obviously, that's happening. People are not, it's not that big of a deal anymore. But eventually, like people say, Oh, well, like what I really love is this one. Oh, they're good, there's gonna be this big awakening, this big change is gonna be happening soon, and we'll all know, and you know, we're gonna have somehow this give up war and our tendencies and stuff. All people really care about, like what you said, is can I still get my dinner? Can I still drive my car? Can I still go to work? Can I still get my paycheck? You know, people always talking in this nebulous terms of all these big changes are gonna come and it's gonna be wonderful, and they're getting us ready for it. This is gonna be coming real soon. Well, it never comes. And even if it did come, people still want to be able to live their lives.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:03

And they're gonna have to get around somebody's gonna have to pay for these murders. Well, right, that's the other thing. They can't give us disclosure without coming clean on the US above.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

If if if our if the governments of the world were to come clean and say, listen, we've been allowing our cousins to take people from the surface to genetically manipulate or to breed with before their own purposes, you know, to stay alive. Imagine the multi-quadrillion dollars worth of lawsuits that would happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:32

And we allowed that so we could have a little bit of their tech.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

Right.

unknown 1:02:36

That's okay, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

Yeah. We can have the tech so we can uh blow up the Russians or blow up the Iran Iranians, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

But we were in the Cold War at the time and we were so paranoid about Russia, the tech the tech seemed like the most important thing, you know, as is be having a technological edge over what's the first thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

The needs of the many versus the needs of the few. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

By the way, I think they're gonna have to get around that and lying to us for 80 straight years and uh or longer than that. You know, I don't know if we'll ever see disclosure because of those impediments. It's almost like we'd have to give them like what a pardon.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Oh yeah, uh they call yeah, a weekend pass, like a pre a pre pass.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

Yeah, where you um you you say but but then you have to come completely clean with us. You only get this once, you know, and you have to tell us everything you did because we found out something you did after. Well, that's where Uncle George went. So so yeah, they have to do, you know, something like that because otherwise these people have committed mass murders to keep this quiet. Right. Um are they gonna do 40 years, you know? Right. No, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

My quick two cents about this my quick two cents about disclosure. Whether they disclose that they're things that they're beings underground or beings coming from the stars, from localized star systems that are fairly close to us and they have the capabilities to make the travel. Can we get I want Star Trek to be true? I'm probably among the yeah, many that want that to be true. We want it now. Because it's it's it's from like a scientific perspective, it's much uh to me, it's much more fun the concept that you travel the stars and see different galaxies and all that stuff like that. As long as you don't run into the Dominion from uh deep space in the Borg would be okay. Or the Borg, yeah, that'd be that'd be horrible. Could you imagine you turn on your radio one day and you just hear the Borg broadcast? That'd be that'd be terrifying. What I did want to say is that Dean and I have talked about disclosure a few times. Yeah, I would want Star Trek to be real aside from like the Borg stuff, you know. You don't want the borg you don't want to turn on your radio and hear the Borg broadcast one day. That'd be the most terrifying thing. But um what I will say about disclosure, Dean and I have talked about that ad nauseum sometimes alcohol feel uh guilty. But used to be guilty, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

We gave it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

My perspective is that I I think a lot of folks are afraid of disclosure because they're like, oh, it'll bring about societal and economic collapse. And I always make the the argument that some people may disagree or not that economics and all the stuff that we deal with, the stock market and stuff, it's all fucking imaginary. We made it up. What's our debt owed to? Like fucking Megatron? Like, is Megatron gonna come down with the Decepticons and be like, oh, you have disclosure now, you gotta pay in your debt or everything's gonna collapse. Like that whole concept just drives me nuts. If there's a possibility to better the human species from a technological perspective, when we to make it that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels or You know, they help us create teleportation like Star Trek has, or replicators, or something of that sort. I would rather deal with that temporary unsettledness to have that game.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

You know, I think a couple real quick quite I know we're getting close on time, but um the thing is from the way I see it, it's an easier sell to have aliens coming from someplace outside of the planet. It's an easier sell that keep looking up instead of looking down saying, listen, we're already existing with them, and they're taking us when they need them for their own uh net necessity. It's an easier sell, the alien thing, rather than a cousin thing subsurface. And the other thing is that you're right about this whole thing about being just an illusion as far as like value and money and all this type of stuff. Like the total value of the earth, according to Harari's work, just three years ago, the total value of the earth is eight hundred trillion dollars. Okay. Elon Musk is almost a trillion by himself, right? So the total value of the earth is eight hundred trillion. Of that, only eighty trillion dollars of that is actual money and gold. So $720 trillion of what we consider to be wealth is digital. In today's world, 90%, 90% of that is digital wealth. The paper and the and the and the uh the uh the gold, that is only 10% where it used to be in the past, it used to be that was there was no such thing as digital um resources.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

But um I we agree that we think it's time to rip off the band-aid, deal with the consequences, and move forward from there. You know, um how we fit in. It's bad for our democracy to have this secret underbelly of our government that is you know uh running things, this legacy program, people and um lying to us and misappropriating funds. Let's, like I say, rip off the band-aid, deal with the consequences, and then we can move forward where you don't have to misappropriate millions of dollars every year for your secret black ops, you know, or your secret UFO study.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

That's that's a whole thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:23

I'd like to see it, but I I I still don't think that we're gonna see it because these people are what we're seeing with these murders of all these scientists and uh or the disappearances of the them. What we're seeing is the legacy program closing ranks. They are silencing witnesses, and that doesn't look like we're moving towards disclosure to me. That looks like we're moving away from disclosure to me. Towards distraction.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

More distraction.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

Yeah, we did a show called Eight Missing and Four Dead. Yeah, eight dead and four missing.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:01

And now there's more of them. Now we have to do a new show called Twelve Dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Yeah, the Monica Casillas, you know, she turned up uh about a year after she disappeared in uh New Mexico, and just they still can't figure out, you know, why she turned back up a year later in a place they already searched a couple times, you know. Again, you know, she had her handgun right by her side, leaning against a cactus. They can't find the shell casing. They uh it's it's just it's just ridiculous. I mean, they uh she she supposedly set both of her phones, both of her smartphones, her work phone and her personal phone back to factory, factory beginning. A factory she wiped it all, set the factory standard, left her ID at home, left her uh wallet or ID at home and her keys, and she just took a gun and her backpack, and she just was seen walking down the road on a door cam. Funnily enough, the door cam records her on June the 27th, even though she disappeared on June the 26th.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

They said.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

So it's just there's a lot of these things don't add up. You know, there they're we still don't know why she wasn't found. She was gonna go, she was gonna uh she had no intentions of committing suicide. She was gonna be moving to be closer to her daughter, you know. She had just lost her highest clearance, security clearance. She had Q clearance, apparently, which was the highest that you can get, but she lost that because she had some financial problems, apparently. So she was paying off some debts on her taxes. But she actually had the the highest clearance for security in the area where she was working at Los Alamo Los Alamos, I believe it was.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

Yeah, she was one of the Los Alamos.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

So she's in very, very sensitive areas, had sensitive information. Just like McCaslin and Reza and these other ones, uh, they all had they're all working together, working together, probably. You know, uh McCaslin had had a uh had a uh what you call a uh a fake account, not a fake account, a secret account where he was actually releasing information on the internet on the web about things that were going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:02

Yeah, he had a uh a Twitter uh persona that where he was releasing stuff he probably shouldn't have been releasing, according to his non-disclosure agreement, I'm sure he signed. So he's uh we think that's why he was well, you think he's been killed.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:19

I I mean I I I don't I hope his wife isn't listening, you know, right now, but that's what we think has has happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

Yeah, there's a lot of strange factors that go into play in a lot of those stories I've read into them as well. And you gotta think too that like somebody has that kind of understanding, uh knowledge of um technology and capability, they would um not act the way that that some of these people acted in their final moments, like you said, wiping their phone or um or other other areas that they should have known better based off of their their knowledge of how things work like that. It doesn't seem to add up.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

These are strange, they're just strange. They had the detective, they had this detective, which is again this a disinformation campaign. This one guy came on, he's been like searching for like missing people. He's like an expert in the field, right? They said, Well, well, how come the body wasn't found? It was found in the area that was already searched. Well, he said there are coyotes in the area, and you know, it could very well be that the coyote, you know, kind of moved moved the body.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

The whole body, really. So it's like the country back in the hand, and yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:23

Nothing to see here, folks. Yeah, the coyote. And then the other thing about the about about the cell phones, both the cell phones, the uh smartphones being set back to factory. He said, Well, you know, uh, she probably didn't want to leave any any uh financial burdens behind for her husband, so she probably figured that she set him back to factory that way he could resell the he could resell the smartphones more easily. And this guy is saying this with a straight face on an interview, and people are just saying, see, it's been debunked, she she just committed suicide, and it was you know it display they're selling, trying to sell the people, they're trying to sell this crap, you know, really that just that just goes to the problem of like the the conspiracy theory about repressing society with poor education and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:06

Anyway, right, that's a whole other podcast. But I did want to touch on one last thing, which is my personal story of experience, and it's gonna be fascinating to hear what you think. Because I and please tell me um if you think it's a big nothing burger, because I honestly think that I would probably prefer that to being real. And Chris, before I start, yeah, Chris is actually Chris is actually the brilliant one who pointed out that this the sequential order of my three experiences in my youth with UFOs and potentially what's the technical term, Chris, for a lizard person? It's um yeah, or it what's what's the location that they're supposed to be from, though it starts with a D?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Oh, Draconis or Draco? Draconid, yeah, Draconis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

So I potentially had that in my room one night leading up to that. But so Chris is the one that pointed out that all these things in order might have been like a closing in of a contact that I I never thought of. I thought they were all disparate experiences. But I'll just go through them really quickly and ask if you want more detail, I'll give more detail. Um the first time I experienced something was a sighting over the horizon, and I grew up in a kind of like a rural/slash small city area of western Pennsylvania, and this would have been around the time between the ages, or this was probably like in the late 90s, so I would have been like barely an adolescent. And so we would watch these, my mother and I would watch these um lights track across the sky over the horizon. And at first you would think nothing much of them, they were just like airplane lights or whatever, but they would do weird weird maneuvers. They would stop and hover, and um, at that point you would probably think, oh, helicopter, right? But then the strangest thing that ever happened that we ever saw over several occasions, one of these crafts would the the bigger craft would eject smaller lights out of them, out of the or sorry, out of the bigger one, and they would it would travel, they would travel in different directions away from the primary light, and they would go hang out somewhere, and then they would return back up into the craft. And the strange thing about that to me is this was the the late 90s, and that sort of technology just did not exist out in the public. So we just cannot figure out it still doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:09

That's not ours, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

Right. Like maybe drones, but still, like that's it does that sort of thing doesn't just happen over, you know, small town western uh Western America.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:19

That's definitely one of the uh observable characteristics we we feel. Uh UFOs well, they'll they'll link up, you know, seven of them will link up and move away as one, or one will break into seven and move fly off in all different directions.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:35

I have seen Go ahead though, carry on. No, thank you. That's good, that's a good observation because I have seen them uh the smaller lights go off on their own and never return, but mostly they return to the the primary craft. Um so that was the first experience. And then when I was a little bit older, one thing I used to love doing when I was a kid was go out in our backyard around summertime, springtime when it was getting warm again. I would lay outside, look at the stars. I love stargazing. Um, but this particular night it was just jet black in the sky. There was no, it was a new moon. Um, there were no stars, and there's a lot of cloud cover. But I was still kind of just laying outside anyway before bedtime. And again, it was very dark out. The sky was very dark, you could barely just make out the clouds. And over my right shoulder, as I'm looking up at the sky, this pitch black blob just starts floating over me. And I could never figure out in my mind or my memory how far away it was, if it was very, very big and very high up, or if it was smaller and closer to me. But I can't get over in my memory how jet black this thing was. It was not a cloud. You could see the contrast between that and the cloud. And it just no lights on it, just move slowly over to my left and then over the horizon and gone in maybe like two minutes. And by the time it clicked in me that I was seeing something strange as a kid and to run and tell my mom or something, I came out, it was gone. I have never experienced or heard anyone experience a jet black craft before. I've thought about like maybe it was a to explain it away, maybe it was a um uh hot air balloon or a blimp or something. But even then, I feel like you would have seen the cabin light or you would have seen some kind of warning light. And why would why would a balloon be traveling in pitch dark over small town America without any kind of warning light on it? And so that was the second experience. Yeah, and then the third, the final experience that I had was the the most bone-chilling one. I had woken up in the middle of the night when I was about twelve or thirteen years old, and I couldn't move my body. I had like the only thing I had going on was I could open my eyes, but I had no emotion whatsoever. I wasn't scared, I wasn't tired, I wasn't whatever. Just like blank face. And I look in the corner of my room and there's this bipedal lizard-looking creature staring at me with these piercing eyes. It didn't look menacing, just kind of a plain face, but it was just watching me from the corner of my room, and it had very strange clothes on. I woke up in a terror in the next morning after that experience, but I wrote it off for many years, and then I didn't revisit it until later. And then a lot of this conversation and revisiting came out through this podcast over the last few years. And so every time I bring it up, especially with people as experienced as yourselves, does that sound like anything significant or yeah, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

I'll definitely I will definitely handle that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

Please, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:18

Um my most profound experience in my entire life happened when I was 23. And then I was interesting that you said that you woke up and you felt like you're like almost like a sleep paralysis, but you're conscious, right? And you said you felt like no emotion.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:32

No feeling.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Did you can you recall at all whether you had a lot of uh that your your thought patterns were kind of like this focus, it's like it's one thought, or did you have a lot of different disparate thoughts, or like were you just kind of like this because you said non-emotional, so was it kind of like almost like you were like in a like your brain waves that really slowed down?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

Yeah, I I think the best way to portray it or or uh give a sense of it is if I if you're watching TV, even if you're watching like a scary movie or a scary show, you are not gonna sit there like biting your nails like no, not everybody does that. You're just watching a TV, you know that it's not anything significant, it's just uh an image or a moving image in your field of view. And it was kind of like a one-thought, kind of just a blank, just looking and that's exactly what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

That's exactly that's that's re reaching what the Zen call the one thought, one pure thought, one thought without the other garbage of emotion that is clouding it. That's your that's your time of power. That happened to me uh when I was 23, and that's when you actually that's what we that's what all the the wise men and the guys in diapers and uh Maharishi and the gurus and the monks, they all try to achieve one pure thought. It's when your your your brain your brain cycles slow down to about two cycles per second. But I think that's your count of power, that's why you're seeing things.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:59

So he's talking more about uh sleep paralysis scenario.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

Yeah, yeah, it is, but but it's talking about his emotional state. He wasn't emotional, he just like had one thought.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:08

Um when we were studying with the Gnostics, uh we were studying meditation and chanting, and um they taught us how to do astral projection. And uh we discovered in this class of how to do astral projection, they taught us that when you're in between sleep and wakefulness, it's called the hypnogogic state. And uh you're paralyzed, uh, but your mind is working, but you can't move your body, right? And most people feel vulnerable during that kind of moment because they they're frightened because they can't move. But really, it's a time of power, it's a time when you it's possible for your astral body to separate from your physical body. And people who are harassed in the astral realm, remember we were telling you that the alien handlers sometimes keep tabs on their abductees in the astral realm. So if you found yourself in the hypnagogic state, you were probably able to see into the astral realm. Right. The aliens, if you're uh one of their regular abductees, they'll keep tabs on you there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:19

You have to be you have to have your brain waves uh have to be your uh your perceptive ability. It's like tuning a radio dial. We're on we're on like 97.1 right now, but if you slow down your brain waves, you go down to 93s, and then you get into a uh a frequency or a wave where they will you can actually see them or they can actually communicate with you. Okay, so you have to be able to get into that that physiological state to be able to perceive them.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:45

Okay, did the AM But it's it's a real thing. Did the reptilian have kind of looked like a gray with scaly skin, or did it look like a velociraptor more?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:54

I wouldn't say as far as a velociraptor, I mean it deaf it was clearly a lizard type of creature, and it did have a greenish hue to it with scales. But I would say that it was less of a lizard and yeah, more of a kind of an anthropomorphic lizard in the sense that it very much reminded me like a human wearing some kind of mask, like a like a scaly mask or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Good that you had that and you recall it because it's it's a very real thing. You could reproduce that, you know, if you uh were able to like wake yourself up when your body for me it's like I feel like my body's glued to the floor, and just it would just take a little bit of effort for me to, when that happens to me, for me to be able to come out of it. But I I've I've seen a little be a little completely jet black being that was floating up uh at the by the ceiling in my house in the when the Ballbrook house when I was 23. And this thing, it was about this big, about a foot tall, maybe, and it was all black with a triangular head with these big eyes and big feet, and it was just floating up there at the ceiling. And it floated down to my down to the floor by my right side, and it said to me, It said, Do you want me to help you get out of your body? But in a deep voice, do you want me to help you get out of your body? And I'm still glued to the I'm still glued to the floor, and I can see it perfectly, and it's right there. And I said to it, I said, You can help me, but you cannot possess me. And I do not know why I said that, but something in me could feel like I shouldn't really trust this thing. It's completely black. And so, anyway, so uh this thing actually grabbed my arm, started to float back up into the into the the back up toward the ceiling, trying to pull me out of my body. And I it kind of went kind of got really frustrated, and then it just ended up vanishing. And then I was able to get myself up after that. The interesting thing is my dad heard two voices. He said, Steven, who were you talking to at 5 30 in the morning? You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

He could hear the other voice too.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:49

So yeah, these these things do they do appear, you know, but you have to be in the right receptive state to be able to see them.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:54

How old were you when you saw the big black uh shape, the giant black shape?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:00

I think it had happened probably a couple years prior, so I was probably eleven, maybe. Yeah. I was I was relatively young. Yeah. But the sequence of events, to be clear, did not happen in a short order. It was more spread out over several years. And then after that last uh experience with the the possible lizard creature being in my room, I didn't experience anything significant after I may have saw the lights still in the sky after that, but it kind of died off after that last experience in my memory at least. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:31

And what age were you at when uh they stopped uh you stopped having uh any interaction, you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:38

Probably 13. I think around 13 years old, 14 maybe. Um I don't think I had any significant experiences in my memory after that. I had moved away after that, so that might be part of the reason. But that's interesting you you say that they keep tabs on you. Do you think that most of the time they stick with someone lifelong, or do they kind of just like lose interest and they have they have with me?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

They just did another exam on me December the first of last year. Okay, it was it was not very fun either.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:07

Yeah, Professor Jacobs was a uh a professor at uh Temple University, I believe, and he he did uh uh an enormous study on regressing uh abductees. So he has a large data pool because he he regressed like 10,000 individuals. And um I had a point that I forgot now. But um one thing we're we're hearing is that they tamper with memories, right, with especially with kids, with younger people. And I think I think like when Steve and his brother were little kids, they saw the the aliens as uh gnomes, like garden gnomes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

When I was eight and yeah, and then when my brother turned eight, he was two years younger than me.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:54

So they could have uh taken you and wiped the memory of the spaceship from your mind could be and just made it a black just a big black blob. You know, they'll change and like a lot of people remember seeing like owls. I think the owls are uh the aliens saying, Oh, you you know, telling them to see an owl face instead of the gray alien face.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:22

And they're less threatening, yeah. Things such as that. Yeah, I mean we did they definitely have the ability to tamper. They're they're they're they're like say they they have no problem tampering with memories or or you know, genetically taking uh liberties with genetics.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:35

So it could have been a mothership with all the lights off. I haven't heard of that before, but I don't know why they couldn't do it. There's certainly there's big these big motherships for sure people see.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:47

And they do cloak right in front of people too, sometimes they're staring right at it and it just disappears in front of them. So that's another one of their capabilities.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:57

Yeah, they're just more advanced. Leslie and Steven, this has been so fascinating. I feel like we just literally just scraped the surface. Like I we could probably have like 20 more episodes, and hopefully we can get you back on, or if you're willing to come back on at some point, we would absolutely love that because there's so much more to unpack.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:13

Maybe you guys could be our guests.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime, just let us know when you have availability and we'll we'll squeeze in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:21

Just one quick comment and then we can let them uh plug specifically about history. But one thing I will say is that I personally don't think that um civilization only started with the Indus River Valley. I think there have been um hundreds upon hundreds of and of empires that have risen and fallen throughout antiquity that we don't know about. Specific I'm a huge ancient Rome person, and the stuff that we know about ancient Rome, like we've probably lost maybe ninety five percent of any written documentation. So that's one thing that. That we always need to take into consideration when you're talking about history and looking at the past, that there's always new evidence and stuff that come about. For example, with Herculaneum and the I believe the library that they uncovered was through artificial intelligence and technology, they're unraveling these scrolls digitally. And apparently we found the burial place of Plato, which has been lost for thousands of years. So there are things that you know that I I think it's important to keep an open mind with certain things and certain discussions. Sure, absolutely. Yep. And on that note, why don't you guys share where the folks can find you? They can get your book, find your show, and if they want to get a hold of you, where can they reach you?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:50

We have uh an Instagram page with a link tree on it, and the link tree has links to our documentaries and our our podcast and our books and you know and all of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:02

Our merch too.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:02

And our merchandise, our merch store, yes. And uh that's at Leslie.shaw.author. And it's L-E-S-L-I-E dot sh a w dot author.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

And uh our our we're gonna be filming our second documentary here that's specifically about about us. Yeah uh that's gonna be happening this July the 26th. So we our first documentary is called Who They Are. It came out late 2024.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:30

It's on Roku and uh Possum and uh Yeah, it goes into a lot of our theories and experiences too.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:38

So and we've been on a number of different documentaries. We've been on about five now.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:46

Yeah, the guy who who did our documentary focusing on us, uh that's the who they are thing. He's uh he's interviewed us several times and they use us as experts on all of their UFO documentaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:59

They'll they'll plug us in, you know, when they you know Sky Island storytelling that they've won those several awards.

unknown 1:30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:06

It's kind of it was kind of nice that they wanted to do a second one with us.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:08

Yeah, and they're they they it did really well. It had like 400,000 views on uh YouTube in eight days.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:15

Our podcast is called uh Abductions 101, UFOs and the Paranormal Connection. And our book is called uh Who They Are and What They're Up To. Or Quieston Uh Haciendo in Spanish.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:30

It's in Spanish.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:31

Phenomenal. Well, thank you so much. And you heard it, folks. Please go check out all of their stuff. Um we can't wait to get you back on and or get on your show. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:43

You've reached the end of tonight's journey on the wandering road. The show is written and produced by me, Chris, and my co-host, Dean. If you've got a scary story of your own, or if you'd like to join us as a guest, send your tale to TWRoadpodcast at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. Don't forget to follow us on social media for more haunted fun. And if you enjoyed tonight's episode, please rate, review, and share the show. It helps keep the lantern burning for fellow travelers. Until next time, keep your eyes on the road and your mind in the shadows, because the wandering never ends.